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Google has a problem!

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anthonycea
Guest

Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: Google has a problem!

Quote:

This user has been banned following an internal investigation by the staff at Spyware Warrior. - Admin

Quote:

Your comments are no longer welcome. Please refrain from
commenting in the blog or posting on the forum. You are welcome to blacklist my sites. I do not wish my sites to be associated with your sites or with you in anyway.
Thank you.

Suzi

.....................................................................................................
Google has a real problem. Look at the link below, the US Lawmakers are introducing new laws that are making Google's Head Lawyer worry a bit.

Link removed - Admin

Read the entire page, a boat load of links are there, one to the Senator that is introducing the law.

Another to the article where Google's lawyer is quoted as being quite worried.

Why would a Google lawyer worry about Spyware laws?

Good old Google would never spy on anyone, would they?

webhelper
SWW Expert

Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 1090

Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: Webhelper Goes On Rant!

I have very stong thoughts on the two links you have provided and will try to cover each.

As to the first:

Quote:

...Get involved in the fight against spyware, educate yourselves, internet users your rights to privacy are a stake right now. Your free speech and free access to the internet is at stake, spyware can be defeated, let your Senators know your feelings today. Contact Senator Burns at the above link!...

First, the Internet is not controled by any one government but crosses all borders. It is not the US government that will contain a magic cure for all the Internet problems with the passage of a bill stating it is now illegal for adware, spyware, or whatever is the hot issue at the moment. IT IS YOU THE INTERNET CONSUMER that bears the responsibility of whether this marketing groups keep doing what they are doing!

Users need to:
1. Read EULA where available
2. If unsure of a site, DON'T BUY FROM IT
3. Popus ads: DON'T CLICK ON THEM
4. As consumers - you need to form an international consumer protection group that would be able to have alerts, boycotts of products and services of those that deal directly or indirectly with adware, spyware, or what ever the termonology of the moment is.

I for one would not like to set up a business to sell a product and a foreign government decided to make the product illegal in their country and then came to my country to prosecute me for selling what is legal in my country. The Internet needs to be free of as much government regulations as possible and left in the hands of the consumer as it is the consumers choice whether to useand/or buy services or not.

I will use a good example that I found from your second link to show how consumer action would have an affect. Over 75% of all adware can be directly linked to sites that offer something for free and those sites are directly or indirectly linked to a site that makes its money thru marketing to advertising clients.

In your search engine listing, the searchenginesinternational.com/wst_page3.html has an ad for ipowerweb.com web hosting services. This is hard coded into their page as the searchenginesinternational.com is an affiliate.

href='http://ads.ipowerweb.com/~afftrend/transaction.php?APID=47&affID=00000000000000010593'><img src='http://ads.ipowerweb.com/~afftrend/gadserv.php?APID=47&affID=00000000000000010593' border='0'></a></center>

I already have a write up about this site and another from California called powweb.com that I have not fully released for public viewing..

http://www.webhelper4u.com/offeroptimizerads/ipowerandpowweb.html

Both are directly supporting the spread and infestation of ThinkingMedia.net Transponder adware by using the Transponder Gangs OfferOptimizer.com ad services.

This shows the ipowerweb.com ad.
http://xlime.offeroptimizer.com/creat/imark/lpages0408underb.html?s=5556&c=9943&ontop=1

Why do I label them as directly supporting adware? It is because their ads would not be foisted on users computer unless the user had the Transponder bi.dll, twaintech.dll, or mxtarget.dll installed to transmit data to the OfferOptimizer ad servers that show the ads.

This means that as a consumer, you would want to advertise the facts backed up with hard evidence to prove your claims and if enough users were to stop using the sites products and services and any other site that advertised those same sites like the second link you gave (Yes, users need to not use the SearchEnginesInternational.com) because they make money as an affiliate advertising a site that also directly uses an known adware maketing company advertising services then the adware marketing would have to change or go out of business because of the loss of clients that do want to lose customers.
**********
Now about you second link. Along with the fact that they are an affiliate of ipowerweb.com that is directly linked to the Transponder Gang, the site itself if users where to use some of the sites listed, could well end up being hijacked.

One site listed is that of websearch.com that is owned by IBIS, LLC
that is known for hijacking and installation of adware:
http://www.websearch.com/legal/privacy.aspx

Here is part of their privacy statement:

Quote:

The URLs we collect through the Service sometimes contain personal information about you. For example, when you enter information on a Web page (e.g., when you complete an online registration form or sign up for a contest), the operator of the website may insert that information into its URL for that or the next page. This information often appears after a question mark ("?") in the URL, although it can appear in other places. This means that your name, your address, your e-mail address, or similar information you might consider private or personally identifiable which you enter into a Web page sometimes becomes part of a URLs that is then transmitted to IBIS and automatically stored in IBIS databases. This can also occur with words, topics, products, or phrases you enter into search engines whether those engines are provided by the Service itself or found elsewhere on the Web while using the Service. IBIS has no control over what information third party websites put into their URLs or where they put it, but any information in each URL is collected and stored by IBIS when you are using the Service.

We collect information about the products you view or search for on the World Wide Web. This allows us to provide more detailed product and comparative shopping information. The information we collect includes product codes (such as ISBN numbers for books), product names, and other identifiers that appear in both the text and the URLs of Web pages that you view. The product information that IBIS gathers is logged together with your IP address, IBIS cookie number, the names of IBIS business partners that might have additional information about the particular product, and the date and time, in a single data string for each Web page you visit. These strings, which we call "shopping paths," may also contain personally identifiable information. IBIS transmits the product descriptions (without your IBIS cookie number or IP address) to its business partners, who return relevant product information and/or comparison shopping information to the Service for your use.

The next is that of Mysearch.com which is owned by iwon.com and is part of the Fun Web Products that infest computers and is hard to get rid of.
http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/MySearch.html

So I would say if you need a link to a site with search engines the it should be http://www.searchengineguide.com

YOU MUST BE APPROVED AS A SEARCH ENGINE.
This is the type of site that would be safer clicking on their links than the one you gave.

This is their policy on sites they add:

http://www.searchengineguide.com/addasite.html

Quote:

Submit A Search Tool
The one thing you must understand before submitting your search tool:
WE ONLY LIST SEARCH ENGINES IN OUR DATABASE

Every submission is reviewed BEFORE it goes into our database.

If you submit anything other than a search engine, your submission will just be deleted without being listed.

It will NOT get listed. Also... It is our intention to keep our database as family friendly and kid safe as possible. We do NOT list adult sites.

We reserve the right to reject any submission or remove any existing listing without notice or explanation.

Ok, End of the Webhelper Rant!
_________________
Wächter der Geschichten:
http://www.webhelper4u.com/thewatcher.html
Member of ASAP Since 2004

anthonycea
Guest

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 2:52 am Post subject:

Quote:

This user has been banned following an internal investigation by the staff at Spyware Warrior. - Admin

Quote:

Webhelper, thank you for very good points, we certainly do not want to send users to spyware serving vendors.

SearchEngineGuide lists nothing about excluding spyware in the terms of inclusion you post. In fact many of their links will lead to spyware vendors.

If you go to some of the links in their site such as SearchHippo they lead to PPC search engines that have links to spyware vendors. So laws ARE the answer to the spyware problem since the internet is interlinked and many companies that are linked to may have programs as you mention that are unsafe.

I will review the points you make and remove any vendors that are spyware providers. Please provide a list as we would like to make SearchEnginesInternational a Spyware Warrior Approved Site. If you and the board will review the site we will look at those suggestions and maybe we can start a SpywareWarrior approved site program where Webmasters could put the SW seal on the site.

This could become a new program for the board to look at here, producing a approved site list and certification program, I would welcome such a program and would volunteer as a test case. Webmasters could submit their sites to Spyware Warrior, pay a fee for review and a yearly subscription for monitoring the site and if kept spyware free could be awarded a seal of merit by the board of Spyware Warrior, this seal could provide a link back to Spyware Warrior just like the PayPal seal does when webmasters display it as a PayPal approved site. Let me know what you think of my idea please.

Does that mean also that Google should be removed from the search engine list? Next since Alexa is Owned by Amazon should we not do busines with them or use their affiliate programs. In addition to that, since Jeff Bezos the CEO of Amazon is a big investor in Google, should we quit using Google. Let me know your views on this please.

My view is this, we should lobby the spyware remover companies, ADAWARE, SPYBOT and some of the others, since many of those companies that are considered spyware vendors are not included in their profiles.

Can you give me a answer to this question, why is the Alexa toolbar considered spyware, but the Google toolbar is not listed by Spybot or ADAWARE?

Next, you have shown me that some of the links in SearchEnginesInternational include some vendors who are known spyware vendors. I will be happy to remove ALL of the listings that this board deems to be spyware vendors. Please do a complete review of SearchEnginesInternetional.com and let me know which companies you believe are the worst offenders.

Last edited by anthonycea on Tue May 25, 2004 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total

nomorespyware
Warrior Sleuth Expert

Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 219

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:21 am Post subject: Thanks webhelper

Quote:

Users need to:
1. Read EULA where available
2. If unsure of a site, DON'T BUY FROM IT
3. Popus ads: DON'T CLICK ON THEM
4. As consumers - you need to form an international consumer protection group that would be able to have alerts, boycotts of products and services of those that deal directly or indirectly with adware, spyware, or what ever the termonology of the moment is.

This is the only real and logical answer to adware/spyware. No law can reach outside it's jurisdiction and therefore, will fail when it's applied to the internet.

People become infuriated and annoyed with scumware but we have to stop and ask ourselves....why do they keep doing it? Because it's profitable, it's lucrative, and they're making millions. A lot of people somewhere must be clicking and downloading or they would give up the practice. People fall for the sales pitch, people don't read EULA's, people download at random. Educating these people and making them aware is the only answer.

It is illegal to break into someone's house and rob them in any country. It's illegal to steal a car. So why don't we leave our doors unlocked when we leave the house? Why don't we leave our cars unlocked with the keys in them? Because we understand that even though it is illegal, a certain portion of responsibility falls on our head to protect ourselves and our belongings.

It's no different on the internet. We can get as angry as we want against unethical companies but ultimately, we need to be smart enough to avoid them in the first place. A business will close it's doors if it isn't making a profit. That ain't happening with adware/spyware because they're making money, all because too many people are doing the equivalent of leaving their doors unlocked and leaving the keys in the car.

anthonycea
Guest

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:37 am Post subject:

Quote:

This user has been banned following an internal investigation by the staff at Spyware Warrior. - Admin

Quote:

Webhelper,

Please review again deleted we have removed the AD for IPOWEB and the link to websearch per your recommendation. We will also remove any IPWEB banners from our other sites.

I will remove Mysearch if you say they are a vendor of spyware, but where does this stop, should I revome Google from the deleted database also?

MyWay/Mysearch was just aquired by ASK.com do we remove them from the search engine directory also? After your mention of Websearch, I did remove their link as you suggested, I ran a search on Websearch and then ran ADAWARE, it did NOT show any adware/spyware on the scan, so it must be the toolbar that you consider spyware, why not then proclaim the Google toolbar as spyware, what is your position on that subject, please explain the above facts.

The website was put up to help surfers find new search engines quickly. It was put up to as a useful tool to help folks as a reference point, we want it to be safe for users, so please do a complete review of the site for me.

As far as laws and regulations, I do support the new antispyware/adware laws. You say that the internet users should self regulate, but this is not possible since the webmasters/spymasters are able to use their technology knowledge superiority to take advantage of users who do not have knowledge of programming. So laws must be enacted to outlaw use of software that enables third parties to collect data without authorization from the internet users on the network.

You say that the US Government can not regulate the Internet, I disagree with you, most of the infrastructure for the internet were created by the US Government, most of the companies that administer the internet were appointed by the US Government.

Someone has to lead and since the internet is a intenational network greatly influenced by the US Government, it is natural that US Laws provide protection for internet users.

Yes if a company wants to set up offshore and run spyware and hacking rings they can do so, but they can also be blocked or banned from certain countries also.

Software can also keep them out, Spyware Blaster for example.

Please respond to each of the points in my prior posts.

Thank you.

java
SWW Masters Graduate

Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Last Visit: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 260
Location: Ontario,Canada

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:15 am Post subject:

Sorry for getting HOT about this stuff but I'm am Canadian!
I feel that the Goverment should be ALL to gether on this NOT just one conrty(US). If any thing they all should help in prosicuting the realy BAD ones like kiddy porn. The fast sells will always be there no matterwhat (Snake oils on the wagons). We as an collective need to work together not over ran by one goverment.

Quote:

"You say that the US Government can not regulate the Internet, I disagree with you, most of the infrastructure for the internet were created by the US Government, most of the companies that administer the internet were appointed by the US Government.

Someone has to lead and since the internet is a intenational network greatly influenced by the US Government, it is natural that US Laws provide protection for internet users."

Sorry again about the rant but just gets under my skins when I feel like I'm getting pushed down. (one of the canadians that stand up). WE ARE NOT ALL SHEEP!

Java
_________________
We are our own worst nightmares!
Please update your computers, update and run all anitvirus/spyware programs!

anthonycea
Guest

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:35 am Post subject:

Quote:

This user has been banned following an internal investigation by the staff at Spyware Warrior. - Admin

Quote:

To my friend in Canada, would the Internet itself exist if it were not for the US Government?

We do not expect you to follow as dumb SHEEP. Please contribute, you can see the link in the first post here.

Contact the Senators office in the link, email him, we are not asking you to be rolled over by any law. But would you like to keep your head in the sand while Spyware vendors roll over a lawless internet.

Read the Senators press release, I think you will agree with most of what he is proposing since you have been working in this direction yourself for many years.

Get involved, be a advocate as you are now. Contact your government to participate in the new law creation. Give your input now to help formulate future policy.

webhelper
SWW Expert

Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Last Visit: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 1090

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:03 am Post subject:

I haven't forgotten no one and will prepare a reply this evening Eastern Daylight Savings Time..(never could get this stright..) _________________ Wächter der Geschichten: http://www.webhelper4u.com/thewatcher.html Member of ASAP Since 2004

iceblue
Warrior Guru

Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Last Visit: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 392
Location: Sydney

Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:05 am Post subject:

Quote:

There are a number of issues in this thread that will be discussed with Suzi on her return from vacation.

As the thread has cycled to it's start point, this is appropriate to leave off further contributions until her return.

Admin

Edit - added by suzi on June 4. I prefer to keep this thread locked. If anyone wants to continue on this topic, please start a new thread. Webhelper, I'm very interested in your findings.
_________________
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Travel safely ! Smile

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