Spyware Warrior

suzi · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: FTC conference on spyware!

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/spyware/index.htm

nomorespyware · Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:23 pm Post subject: Contact Information

More information about this workshop and contact information can be found here:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/02/spyware.htm

For those who cannot attend, written comments and submissions are accepted! I would encourage everyone to submit something in writing.

I would dearly love to attend in person but don't see any way possible at this time.

Nick · Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:08 pm Post subject:

Ok, who wants me to drive up to DC?

I definately encourage everyone to make at least a comment. Please note: if you email a comment to the FTC but do not receive an acknowledgement, please resubmit your comment.

spywareworkshop2004@ftc.gov

I've seen links around talking about this, but this link is the best one I've seen. It's by eburger68 (the person who maintains IE Spyads) and it offers some great advice on how to create an effective letter. Remember, we are talking about the government, so responding in a way that can discredit you is not a good idea. If they get swampped with responses, they'll use anything to throw yours out. I find these parts to be important to remember:

suzi · Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject:

That's a great link and excellent advice. I wonder if the author of that post would mind if we copied it and posted it over here. I'd like to put it on my blog also.

Where are you leaving from to go to DC?
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Nick · Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject:

I don't think Eric would mind, though you should ask first Smile

I live in southeastern Va, so DC is 3 to 4 hours deppending on traffic. Though, I don't know if I'll be able to go yet, due to work and other IRL issues.

You know your blog is getting quite popular. Mike from Lurkhere posted a link to your blog. They use that funky forum there, so I can't get the url for the exact page, but it's in the "spies" conference and then look for spyware warrior by Mike. http://www.lurkhere.com/forum768.html

nomorespyware · Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 am Post subject: We need more responses

OK people....anyone reading this thread.....please sit down and write something for submission to the workshop. Only 9 people have submitted a letter so far and one of those encourages the government to butt out. A low response rate could be contrued as a lack of interest from the public or that maybe spyware isn't a big enough problem to worry about. Submitted postings appear on-site within hours after submission at this time. If the FTC is flooded with last-minute submissions, they may not have time to evaluate them properly.

Letters can be sent to spywareworkshop2004@ftc.gov but first read http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/02/spyware.htm to get an understanding of what they're trying to accomplish with this workshop.

Previously submitted letters can be viewed here: http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/spyware/index.html

wawadave · Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:06 am Post subject:

hello
theres absolutely no reason i should respond to that link.as i,m not a citizen of the usa or i would have writen something on the first day i saw thias here.

but as to quote" think that is the most important part. Especially about not being paranoid sounding. There's one sure way to lose all credibility, sound like a conspiracy nut who thinks everything including their computer is "out to get them". " if haveing spyware on your computer dose not make you paranoid i dont know what will!!!!!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad

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Nick · Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:59 pm Post subject:

Just remember we are talking about the US government. So you can say whatever you want, but if you don't say it in the right way, then it'll be dismissed. You do have to be somewhat paranoid when it comes to your computer, but that's not going to get you much sympathy from the ones in charge. IMHO

wawadave · Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject:

hello nick
i agree and would love to be able to add my two cents worth in that link. Sad

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Nick · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:16 am Post subject: Mike Healon goes to Washington

From this weeks Spyware Weekly Newsletter:
Mike Healon from Spywareinfo.com plans to attend FTC conference.

wawadave · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:49 am Post subject:

lol nick just read his news letter my self. hope he gets on the panel.
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suzi · Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:52 am Post subject:

This is a most excellent newsletter. He also says:

Nick · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject:

Hey wawadave, there are people who have responded to the FTC that are listing addresses from outside of the US. So I see no reason you shouldn't write up something.

Bad guys from the adware/spyware people are putting up comments, too.
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nomorespyware · Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: So I noticed

Yeah Nick, I noticed the adware/spyware creators trying to defend themselves in there. I'm working up a response to one of them right now and will send it this weekend. He's under the hallucinatory impression that having a computer full of adware is no different than watching a commercial on TV. Rolling Eyes

I feel the need to set him straight. Wink

Nick · Posted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:

I was pointed to that #21 reply by Suzi. I see the PC Pitstop has a response there as well. I got slack and haven't posted there yet, but I'll get something up there in a few days.

Just don't come across as attacking him, but I'm sure you know better than that.

Oh yeah, various "media" interests are pushing VoD (Video on Demand) which will bring more user specific content and thus more opertunities for targetted advertising. I'll see if I can dig that stuff up, since I have to scour the various home theater forums about TiVO info, as I believe wonderboy is in error about the info he provided about it.
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nomorespyware · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: Second submission

I posted my second submission to the FTC Spyware Workshop this morning under a different email address.

The FTC mentions extending the deadline for receiving submissions but doesn't say what it is. For those of you putting it off, I would suggest getting something in now before it's too late.

Think of any relevant issues that may be overlooked during the workshop that we think are important and mention them in your report. Otherwise, we'll only have ourselves to blame afterwards if valuable content isn't reviewed.

My second submission was designed to blow apart #21's theories on media comparison but if anyone else wants to respond to him as well, by all means feel free.

wawadave · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:43 am Post subject:

i have tried dealing with the us gov in the past i found it was a waste of time. as they did not feel responding to a foreigner was appropriate. was there response.

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nomorespyware · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:13 pm Post subject: new postings

The FTC posted quite a few more comments today on their site at http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/spyware/index.html

Seems a few adware companies are feeling the pressure to justify their actions by responding, too.

linc · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:57 am Post subject:

So what am I doing wrong,
clicking nomorespyware's link brings up the site o.k.
but when I click the name to read their comment, I get gobbledegook.

help.
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nomorespyware · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:39 am Post subject: Acrobat Reader

Linc, it requires acrobat reader to view the comments. I'm not sure if you have it or maybe an outdated version of it?

wawadave · Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject:

my old acrobat 4 reads them just fine!
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linc · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:05 pm Post subject:

Thanks nomorespyware, Acrobat it was required.
Very intersting read.especially the AD companies.
I shall write to the FTC along the following lines.
the makers of these spyware/adware programmes should do the following.
1]Have a genuine address.
2]Give an uninstall programme that works with their programme.
3]Have a shortish EULA, similiar to Googles. explaining what the programme does. i.e offering the user the opportunity to decline the programme if he wants to.
4] make sure all remnants of the programme are removed from the user's computer.

other
5] Make drive-by illegal.
6] make it illegal for bundled programmes.
7]Every machine sold should have installed and enabled by default a firewall, anti virus and the programmes we love Spyware Blaster and Spyware Guard etc.

It was laughable to read the ad co's versions, saying that advertising was needed for the internet and classing it like TV ad's.
Watching TV when the ad's come on we can go and make tea etc.
on the net, they would still be there when we returned. Also TV does not [as far as I know in the uk] track the user.

Like most people say, it's my computer, I paid for it, I decide what I want to put on it. I don't want any enhancements. In fact I go out of my way not to buy anything that comes by way of a pop-up.

Irrespective of what happen re;FTC, there is one thing everyone can do, unfortunately there'll always be someone who won't and that is DON'T BUY FROM POP-UPS or SPAM.Ignore the ads and we'll soon lose the ads.
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wawadave · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject:

i agree don,t buy from any who do agravateing pop ups or flash ads. i don,t and will not buy a dame thing from those why pester,bother ,flash,or driveby down load there crap!!!!
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suzi · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:09 pm Post subject:

Well said, linc! I agree with you on every point.
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linc · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject:

Thanks all Damn now I'm going to become famous,
I'll shall now have to work on going back to my lifelong obscurity.

After a deep nights sleep and re-reading what I wrote a further suggestion would be all programmes to be downloaded as single items, and not bundled together with acceptance/or not of one programme depending on keeping another.

As regards ISP's they should be warned of any spyware programmes emanating from them. If they don't remove them, they should be fined.Heaverly? It is in their interest, if people like one of the writers on the FTC page says, he's so fed up with pop ups that he's giving up his computer. Another user lost to an ISP = lost revenue.If that starts to happen we're going to lose ISP's

edit. just sent a letter to FTC. yeah
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wawadave · Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject:

this sounds good with me link!
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RFID tags! SPYWARE
Tired of proprietary Cor-pirationware?
http://www.openoffice.org/
Installing Vista http://tinyurl.com/2l9qyd

nomorespyware · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:18 am Post subject: Updated

Looks like they posted more comments yesterday. Some very good responses are pouring in! Linc, hopefully my response to C2 Media blew apart their silly notion of comparing adware to television commercials. Very Happy

linc · Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:33 am Post subject:

My letter was posted under the name of knight.

Let's see if anything is done to curb this [now what can I call it without being thrown of this site, why bother calling it anything we all know what I mean]

To people in the USA, did I hear a rumour that there is an election in the near future, maybe a letter to your Senator mentioning that fact might get some action, do it politely and enough of you they might start to get concerned.

As an aside I just read in our local paper the BBC ran a survey on worldwide viewers and found that 52.3 % ranked the US and large corporations as the biggest worry.

Not taking sides here just reporting, though I think large companies have a lot to answer for.
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Chachazz · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject:

There is a new lengthy commentary by Eric Howes at BBR this evening
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,10018653~time=1084832471~mode=flat
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Chachazz · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject:

Eric Howes has posted on BBR - "Transcript for FTP workshop now available"

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/workshops/spyware/transcript.pdf

"It's 298 pages and contains no index or bookmarks whatsoever. I've taken the liberty of creating a bookmarked version, which you can download here:

http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/transcript-idx.pdf

The bookmarks make it much easier to navigate and find things.

I've done some preliminary checking against my posted comments on all six panels http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,10018653~mode=flat

For the most part my memory of specific incidents was dead-on, though there are a few minor corrections that I will have to note. More on that later.

In any case, I hope you enjoy reading for yourself the transcript of what we've been talking about for the past month.

Best,
Eric L. Howes"
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wawadave · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject:

thx chachazz1!! i d/led your version.
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CalamityKen · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:22 pm Post subject:

It is actually Eric's bookmarks.

That's why Quote is much better to use.
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linc · Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 2:56 am Post subject:

Thanks Eric, most impresive documents.

I'm a black and white man, and I think the problem can be cured by the following.

1] This computer is mine I decide what I want on it.
I'm not interested in all the enhancements these ad co's want to put on my computer, they are not enhancements they are to put it mildly irratations. So the following should be mandatory.

2] Make drive by d/l illegal.
3]All programmes to be d/l singlery, and not have to have other programmes d/l to run the programme you want.
4]An Eula that is small and clearly understood, on what the programme does.
5] Make gathering of infomation illegal.
6]Make it illegal for programmes to alter the settings on your computer, whether it be registry or tool bars etc.

It's time ad co's understood a person's computer is that person's and not an outlet for ad co's pop ups etc.

If a product is good enough it will find a market.

As I've said before I will never buy from a company that uses pop ups. The sooner the rest of the world wakes up and does the same the quicker we get back of the net.
_________________
I'm not worried by insanity--I enjoy every minute of it

URL=http://img74.echo.cx/my.php?image=installdisk3nr.jpg]

[/URL]

CalamityKen · Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 4:46 am Post subject:

Steve Gibson of SpinRite fame started this type of philosophy back in 2000 I believe with his "Optout" utility.

The only problem with your great cures is that:

1. Money talks
2. International rules needed
3. They have to be enforced
4. Money grabbers talk loudly
5. Simple small EULAs would expose the crooks for what they are

The best way is to put bigger locks on the door and bullet proof glass in the Windows. Laughing

You are never alone if you are schizophrenic.
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Chachazz · Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:10 pm Post subject:

Additional post by Eric at BBR this evening -

http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,10018653~mode=flat~days=9999~start=30
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wawadave · Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject:

thx chachazz got part ay through will read more of that tommorow! Smile

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webhelper · Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 8:37 am Post subject:

1999 to be exact Smile